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Breastfeeding tip : Recognising a growth spurt

* You feel as though you haven't got enough
* Baby getting upset at the breast (though can be a sign of other common problems)
* Baby is breastfeeding often or almost nonstop (feel like baby is always wanting to feed)
* A baby who was previously sleeping through the night is now waking to breast feed several times
* Baby will latch and unlatch, fussing in between

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re-lactation

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Post by rafwife on Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:42 pm

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum, but was directed here by someone and recognise a few usernames from other forums. Smile

Basically my little girl is 11 days old now and when she was 4 days old I stopped breastfeeding. I have flat nipples and I couldn't feed her properly. She was waking every 30mins and just screaming because she was so hungry. I started topping up with formula and when I got a bout of the baby blues I switched onto formula totally as I felt it was easier.

I regret my decision now, so have spoken to my midwife about re-lactation. i know it's not going to be easy because not only do I have to get my milk supply up, but I still have to ovecome breast feeding with flat nipples and getting my little girl to latch properly.

Under my midwives advice I've started expressing every 2 hours and giving her lots of skin to skin and trying her on the breast for a few minutes at a time before a forumula feed. The idea being to gradually cut out formula as my supply comes back.

The last time I expessed I got a ver small amount from one breast (about a tablespoon) and nothing from the other. So we have a bit of an uphill battle ahead.

If anyone has any advice, or if anyone has gone through anything similar then that would be great. Smile

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Post by Kasia80 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:57 pm

:aww: first of all Welcome to forum and congratulations of giving birth to your little one!

Reading what you've said, I can only agree with your midwife. Amount of how much you can express is never a good example for actually how much your baby is getting from you, pump is never efficient like baby.
What I would do is continue to pump every two hours, continue skin to skin contact with baby and offering breast as often as possible.
Pump and baby sucking will be enough to help your nipples to "extend". I can assure you! I'm sure Kay will chime in, she had flat nipples also.
I have one more idea to help boost your supply.
When you are pumping of breastfeeding you could do breast compressions- to stimulate let down and flow of milk.
You can find infor and instructions here:
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html
Also I think it wouldn't hurt in your situation try to give oats a go. Oats are known to "help" with milk supply.
Oats and oatmeal
I don't normally do this, but in your situation- and this is note to all girls in here so they don't get ideas!!!- I would even recommend trying Fenugreek and Milk Thistle. Both are galactogues and help stimulate and boost milk supply.
You can get them in pharmacy or shops like Holland and Barret etc

We do have mum who relactated on forum, I'll try to flag her down, but I know they have healt issues with LO and she wasn't here for a while.
In a mean time some stories from other mums
http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/bf/relact.asp
http://www.preciouskids.org/adopt/nursingjournal.html

hope this helps a little bit. I think you are a star and there is a HUGE chance for you to succseed! :aww:
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Post by Mervs Mum on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:30 pm

Hey Nic :aww: So glad you're here.

You will find lots more pro-BF encouragement here honey but just as much understanding and support.

I did send you PM before I left the other forum - dunno if you got it??

I'm so pleased you're still trying - If well wishes from me and everyone here help to increased BM production, then your boobs will be back on track in no time Very Happy

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Post by toriaaaaTRASH on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:25 pm

I'm so glad you decided to join! I'm sure you can do it, you are so determined and I hope the girls on here are as helpful to you as they have been to me!
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Post by angpixi on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:32 pm

:aww: good luck and well done for your determination!


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Post by jools on Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:04 pm

Good luck! Keeping everything crossed for you :aww:
Welcome to the forum:aww: :aww: :aww:
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Post by Helen on Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:26 pm

Hiya and welcome to the forum! You sound like such a wonderful mummy trying to relactate list this, welldone for all your hard work so far. Like katie says expressing is never an indication of supply. I had an operation tuesday and my mum has been having my 1 year old why i have been recovering, and despite my best efforts with expressing i have only been able to pump 1 oz after expressing from both boobs! Rolling Eyes

Everything your midwife and katie has said sounds like fab advice. Can i also suggest something in relation to skin to skin? It is rebirthing, i'm guessing anything that may help may be worth a try:

Rebirthing


Another technique used to get babies to accept the breast is known as rebirthing. Rebirthing can be very helpful for preemies (or any baby who spends time in the NICU), even if nursing is going fine. Mom gets into the bathtub, full of warm (not hot) water with baby. Place baby on mom's tummy, in the water. Stroke baby, talk to baby. This may take time, but baby may begin to work his way up to the breast, search it out, and begin to suckle. It's important to have a support person with mom when doing this, for the safety of the baby.

And some more tips at:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html

:aww:
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Post by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:45 am

Hey Nic - How you getting on honey.?


Last edited by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed some text to send PM)
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Post by kay on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:04 am

Welcome to the forum hunny - well done on getting this far :aww:

I had flat nipples, and used medela nipple formers during pregnancy. it took 2 weeks, and my nips have never gone back! You can use them during breastfeeding too - the constant gentle pressure may even help with milk stimulation too?
You could also try a little gadget from chico that extendes the nipple just prior to baby latching on - they are available in boots, mothercare etc. I have found that once baby gets into it, your nipples automatically 'form'.

Good luck - we are all here for you :aww:

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Post by Natasha on Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Welcome

Lots of fantastic advice already, and I just wanted to wish you all the best with it!!

:aww:

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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:43 pm

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm so glad I was directed to this forum. It seems incredibly supportive Smile

Thank you so much for all the links too. I have been spending my evening devouring any information I can get on relatation, latching and BFing.

At the minute this is our sort of routine:

Niamh starts to wake for a feed so I quickly express a bit to get my nipples less flat and to bring some milk through for her. I put her to my breast straight away before she has a chance to get frustrated through hunger. Sometimes she'll latch, sometimes she won't. If she does it's literally for 2/3 sucks then she drops the latch. (I assume this is because my milk flow is slow)

I keep her to my breast for 5mins or so encouraging her to latch. Once she starts pushing away and getting frustrated I'll give her a formula bottle.

I'm still giving her formula because I am sometimes getting nothing from expressing and I've never managed to get more than 10mls from both breasts at a time.

Should I be giving her this expressed milk when I get it, even though it probably wouldn't be a mouthful?

My plan was to keep going with the skin to skin and practising latching until my milk supply gets up, then switching to giving her my expressed breast milk over the formula and keeping her on my breast for longer.

Does it sound like I'm going about things the right way? I'm going to ring my midwife tomorrow and ask about breast feeding support groups in my area. Smile

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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:45 pm

kay wrote:Welcome to the forum hunny - well done on getting this far :aww:

I had flat nipples, and used medela nipple formers during pregnancy. it took 2 weeks, and my nips have never gone back! You can use them during breastfeeding too - the constant gentle pressure may even help with milk stimulation too?
You could also try a little gadget from chico that extendes the nipple just prior to baby latching on - they are available in boots, mothercare etc. I have found that once baby gets into it, your nipples automatically 'form'.

Good luck - we are all here for you :aww:

Thanks! I will look those up. I have nipple shields to use, and have tried them a couple of times with no success yet as they are just too flat and Niamh isn't latching properly yet.

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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:47 pm

Helen wrote:

Rebirthing


Another technique used to get babies to accept the breast is known as rebirthing. Rebirthing can be very helpful for preemies (or any baby who spends time in the NICU), even if nursing is going fine. Mom gets into the bathtub, full of warm (not hot) water with baby. Place baby on mom's tummy, in the water. Stroke baby, talk to baby. This may take time, but baby may begin to work his way up to the breast, search it out, and begin to suckle. It's important to have a support person with mom when doing this, for the safety of the baby.

And some more tips at:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html

:aww:

Wow, that sounds really interesting thanks! I'll try and get my OH to help Niamh and I bathe together tonight and see how it goes! Smile I've been reading a few articles on the kellymom website and it has a lot of good advice. Thanks so much for posting that article. I'll let you know how I get on with the bath.

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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:50 pm

Kasia80 wrote::aww: first of all Welcome to forum and congratulations of giving birth to your little one!

Thank you so much for those links and your advice. I had no idea that expressing wasn't a good indication of supply! I also didn't know anything about breast compressions, so thank you so much for that.

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Post by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:55 pm

Hi hun

When she fusses and drops her latch do try to get her back on for a while before giving the bottle. I know its hard but she is a clever sausage and she'll know how to get the easy milk!! Hebe even does this now at times to try her luck and see if it's time for her pumped bottle!! I often have to swap her to the other breast - for some reason she'll just decide to reject one side but after a while I can get her on the other.

Now with regards to the pumping you really have to try to let go of the concept of how much milk you can pump verses what she can suck. I have just pumped now and only managed 2 oz. Then I put Hebe on the same boobs within 10 mins of stopping and she's had a full feed!!! You know for sure she's getting full at the moment because you have your tops ups but over time you kind of need to get over that mental barrier of 'knowing' exactly what she's had. It really doesnt matter that you can put an amount on it but its a big mental barrier to overcome - I know, I had to as well.

Keep harvesting all those little bits of milk and each time once its cold add it to your main container and eventually you'll have a nice little top up feed to use instead of the formula - every drop counts!

Over time your boobs will get use to the pump and more will come but in the meantime try to trust your body as much as possible.

You are doing a FABULOUS job Nic!!!! We are so proud of you. :aww: :aww: :aww: :aww:
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Post by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:56 pm

What you express is never an indication of whats going on inside babe - your pump is a poor mimic of you little girls suck plus your pump wont get you to have a proper 'let down'.

Are you pumping while feeding??
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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:09 pm

Thanks hun Smile She is due a feed soon so I will try to get her on my breast for longer.

I read the stickies at the top of this forum, and this is what she's doing:

Pulls off breast, screaming. Flails arms. Attempts to relatch.

This
aggressive baby is frustrated by the slow flow. He or she is not
rejecting the breast at this point but may eventually do so if the flow
is not improved.

Maybe I'm being too soft with her, because when she gets to the stage of crying and becoming really frustrated I'm giving her a bottle.

Also, I'm not pumping while feeding but a little before to get the nipple up so she can attempt to latch and then I'm finishing when I've finished feeding her and settled her.

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Post by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:39 pm

rafwife wrote:

Maybe I'm being too soft with her, because when she gets to the stage of crying and becoming really frustrated I'm giving her a bottle.

Also, I'm not pumping while feeding but a little before to get the nipple up so she can attempt to latch and then I'm finishing when I've finished feeding her and settled her.

I think you should trust your instincts - you know when you've tried for long enough and when you can just try a couple more times. The thing is that its hard for any Mum to hear their baby getting upset isnt it.

If thats the main time you pump then defiantely dont read anything into it. I cant get bugger all out unless she's on the other boob. When I do try to pump when I'm not feeding, I have to stare at her picture or preferably her to help encourage it. I actually once looked at what difference it made to my pumping by looking at the pump then looking at her - when I looked at the pump it practically stopped yet when I turned back to look at Hebe it flowed out!!

While your working on you latch you probably wont be able to pump the other side - it would be too big a faff - but once you have got her latching and staying on for a while, you might like to try it as that will all go towards helping get that milk up.

Do you offer both breast each time?? If you do manage to get her on for a bit I'd be tempted to swap her to the other breast too, again for more sucking and hopefully more production.

I'm not an expert and hopefully your MW will help tomorrow. If she doesnt seem up on re-lactation then make sure you find out about any BFing clinic or support groups nearby. I went when Hebe was 10 days old and I was worried about my milk production and the woman who helped me was great - really boosted my confidence. I think half the battle is the belief yo can do it. You can Nic - look at how determined you are already!!! So many mums would have thrown the towel in by now. :aww:
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Post by Kasia80 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:48 pm

rafwife wrote:Thanks hun Smile She is due a feed soon so I will try to get her on my breast for longer.

I read the stickies at the top of this forum, and this is what she's doing:

Pulls off breast, screaming. Flails arms. Attempts to relatch.

This
aggressive baby is frustrated by the slow flow. He or she is not
rejecting the breast at this point but may eventually do so if the flow
is not improved.

Maybe I'm being too soft with her, because when she gets to the stage of crying and becoming really frustrated I'm giving her a bottle.

Also, I'm not pumping while feeding but a little before to get the nipple up so she can attempt to latch and then I'm finishing when I've finished feeding her and settled her.

Breast compressions will deffinately help with slow flow issue. When you need to use bottle its highly recommended to use slowes flow teats, even for older baby- as they need to work on getting milk at the breast and from teat milk just flows quiclky.
Also I would try to follow other tips on how to "fight" slow flowing milk
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html#flowpreference
:aww:

Great advise from girls! bliss
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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:20 pm

My nipples are much better since I've been expressing every two hours and when Niamh was due her last feed I tried to put her on my breast. She didn't even try to suckle just screamed until she went bright red and was smacking me away with her hands and kicking her legs out. Sad She was getting so distressed that I nearly broke down. I had to give her to my husband to bottle feed as I was so upset by it. Sad

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Post by Natasha on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:24 pm

:iconsad: Awww hunny!

Shes proberly got to the stage at the end of the day where she is tierd and wants something she knows is quick.

I reallt think giving it another go during the night when shes half asleep would be a good start, and I also agree with Katie about getting slower flowing teats so she has to work at it.

Well done for getting your nips how you want them, you are doing fantasticly well, she will come round to it, just needs a little help with getting used to a slower flow and having to work for her food :aww:

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Post by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:29 pm

rafwife wrote:My nipples are much better since I've been expressing every two hours and when Niamh was due her last feed I tried to put her on my breast. She didn't even try to suckle just screamed until she went bright red and was smacking me away with her hands and kicking her legs out. Sad She was getting so distressed that I nearly broke down. I had to give her to my husband to bottle feed as I was so upset by it. Sad

Oh honey :aww: thats got to be so hard. Dont upset yourself. Just take it really slow till you can have some proper help getting her on and take it from there. Dont push it too soon or you might give up before you've got started. I wish I were a bit closer.

I dont know exactly where you are but these are the contact details for LLL

http://www.laleche.org.uk/pages/groups/scotland.htm

There might be someone who can come out and try to help you. You could use some support in person I think x


Last edited by Mervs Mum on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a bit and amended typos)
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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:52 pm

Thanks so much mervs mum, I will give them a ring tomorrow after I've spoken to my midwife. Hopefully there will be a group in my area. I think you're right that I need someone to come and help me. My nipples are so much better now, and I'm trying everything they should me in hospital but I can't get it.

This last feed she had woken up but was just cooing away to herself so I tried her on my breast before she got anxious for a feed and she was still a bit sleepy. Sad

She'll be due another feed in about 3 hours, so I'm going to try having a bath with her and the rebirthing technique that was mentioned on the first page.

Natasha, I'll try her again in the night too. I don't know what sort of flow the bottle teats are. They are avent type 1 so designed for newborns. I get hardly anything out of them if I invert the bottle upside down but I don't know what the flow is like for her. I might do some reasearch now online and look for a different brand tomorrow.

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Post by Natasha on Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:10 pm

:aww:

Have a look at this site

http://www.breastflow.co.uk/qa.htm#q3

Breastflow ones make the baby work at the teat like a nipple.

***********************************************
Breastfed Lottie for nearly two years and Livi for 13 months.
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Post by rafwife on Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:23 pm

Thanks so much Natasha! I have just ordered three bottles from mothercare! Very Happy

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