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Breastfeeding tip : Recognising a growth spurt

* You feel as though you haven't got enough
* Baby getting upset at the breast (though can be a sign of other common problems)
* Baby is breastfeeding often or almost nonstop (feel like baby is always wanting to feed)
* A baby who was previously sleeping through the night is now waking to breast feed several times
* Baby will latch and unlatch, fussing in between

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Urgent help needed please ladies.

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Post by helenasusan on Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:04 pm

Right my sister in law had a caesarean last wednesday and had a major haemorrhage after it. Her milk didn't come in till Saturday but baby seemed to be feeding well on demand.

Now for some reason they have weighed baby who has lost 10% of her body weight and the paediatrician attending said to Al that "obviously her milk wasn't good enough" I'm hopping mad at that but anyway. Emme is slightly jaundiced but her bilirubin blood levels are under the treatment threashold.

I honestly think she's got forceful let down/oversupply but as the breastfeeding counsellor is on holiday I really don't know what to suggest for the best. Emme is very colicky, pulls off the breast as soon as let down occurs and Al sprays every where. When Emme has finished feeding she has a huge patch of milk under her so I don't honestly think that it is a undersupply issue. I know that when I had this I fed from the same breast for 2 hours before switching but Jack was gaining weight so not sure whether Al can do this for Emme.

Al ff my nephew Jenson so this is her first bf experience and I can see that she is so close to going on to ff. She regretted it so much that time that she ended up with PND due to it and I really don't want her to head down that road again!

Anyone any ideas as they won't let Al come home until Emme's gaining weight and as she's got a 3 year old and my brother on crutches due to a dislocated hip she really wants to get home.

All comments appreciated. x
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Post by gem1981 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:25 pm

I can't really be any help but when I was in the first few days and struggling I rang the breastfeeding network helpline and the lady there was really helpful and put me in touch with the nearest breastfeeding counsellor who came straight out to see me. Maybe you/she could ring them? The number is 0844 412 4664

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Post by piesmummy2006 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:53 pm

i dont really have advice but didn't want to read and run hun! :aww: :aww: :aww: :aww:
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Post by Kasia80 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:07 pm

:aww:
Starting with Cesarean: she might find it hard to find comfortable possition till scar will heal:
Also I would suspect she might had problems with milk becasue of medication used in aneastesia and pain managment and because delivery method.
Some great info:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/concerns/c-section.html
For strong letdown is best to keep baby "as upright as possible" during feeding, little elevated, so gravitation is not helping the flow. Nursing laying down is great- this is how we've dealt with this problem- and its great for c section mum too!
Also she could hand express prior to feeding to ease flow and save expressed milk. This way baby will get more hindmilk, which is reacher in calories and fat too.
more on http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html
As for jaundice: becasue colostrum and breastmilk has gentle laxative (thats why bf babies "go" to loo sooo mannnany times a day in first weeks) properties its best to bf, bf, and more bf- this way baby is getting best food and bilirubin is flushed out of system- to compare with formula: ff is harder to digest and ff baby will poo once a day; makes sense to us, obviously docs have much lesser of it Wink
More here http://www.kellymom.com/newman/07jaundice.html
http://www.breastfeeding-basics.com/html/jaundice.shtml
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/jaundiceGood.html

u could print some of this stuff out or save on laptop and show it to her, it will be v. reasuring for her!

You could give a Bfn or ABM a call to see do they have anyone in close by:
ABM Breastfeeding Helpline: 0844 41 229 49

BfN Breastfeeding Helpline: 0844 41 246 64


keep us posted please!
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Post by helenasusan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:43 am

Thanks so much ladies. Stupid paed told her to ff yesterday so she didn't bf all day. I phoned her at 6 to find her crying her eyes out as she didn't want to do that and she was in such pain from engorgement.

I told her to get straight back onto the breast pump as there is no point her milk going to waste and if they are insisting on her ff she can bf before hand and then give a ff top up if totally necessary.

Here's the things that I don't understand - the paed told her that there was no point her bf and topping up as Emme needs around 40-50mls of ff which has to be given from a bottle and this will make her reject the breast so no point in even attempting to carry on bf. It makes no sense at all to me! Mad

She is hopefully coming home today so we can get this sorted out. I know the team of community midwives she is coming home to and they are brilliant for bf support! I had the same team after I had Jack.

I've dropped off my double electric breast pump at her house so that she can get Emme back on the breast and express as well to give as a top up but I think she needs to increase her frequency of nursing Emme has been feeding every 3-4 hours and has gone 6 hours at night personally I think it's too long a gap between feeds. She's also been told to only feed for 10 minutes on each breast I don't think Emme's been getting any hind milk at all.

I so don't want this to go wrong for her as she was so determined to bf and I just feel that she has been let down badly by the hospital.

I'll let you know how she's getting on but to be honest I can't see her carrying on if they keep her in hospital anylonger. I know the huge pressure to ff there as I had it with Jack as he was an IUGR baby due to preeclampsia.

Please excuse the rushed post, grammer and spelling probably very off but I'm feeding Jack and trying to type at the same time while speaking to Mark on the phone.

Thanks again everyone.
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Post by Kasia80 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:43 pm

she doesn't have to give formula- they can't make her!!!!

Newborn needs feed 10-12 times a day, so yes- 3-4 hour gap sounds much too long for me. Personally I would think every 2 hours is "norm" unless baby shows signs of hunger more often.

Baby NEED'S to be fed on demand- she needs to follow her baby in order to sustain and establish her supply and for baby to get enough milk. I would think baby is not showing signs of hunger as a result, yet again, of meds used during delivery and birth trauma- I personally consicer c section as a traumatic birth; also if baby is given formula it can slow digestion.

Hunger clues:
Common infant hunger cues include:


Early

  • Smacking or licking lips
  • Opening and closing mouth
  • Sucking on lips, tongue, hands, fingers, toes, toys, or clothing
Active

  • Rooting around on the chest of whoever is carrying him
  • Trying to position for nursing, either by lying back or pulling on your clothes
  • Fidgeting or squirming around a lot
  • Hitting you on the arm or chest repeatedly
  • Fussing or breathing fast
Late

  • Moving head frantically from side to side
  • Crying
Now, BABY NEEDS 24 to 26 oz of expressed breastmilk or formula in 24 h. So whatever she decides to do: this is how much baby will need, regardless of baby's age. FF babies are sooooo overfed, because of constant encrease in amounts of ff thye are given.
Now, what hopsital it is? Would you consider reproting them? For me thiir pushing formula and disregarding maternal wishes is totally unaceptable"!!!! I would consider it as a promoting formula in nhs unit- clearly mother has milk and its not an emergency. just my thoughts.
I think she is really lucky to have you close and helping and supporting her! :aww:
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Post by gem1981 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:50 pm

how is your SIL doing?

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Post by helenasusan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:15 pm

She listened to the paed unfortunetly and is now saying that there is no point her feeding as her milk is no good.

They have ruined her confidence and I feel so sorry for her. The problem is that who is she going to listen to - a trained medical professional (who knows less knowledge about bf than my little finger) or me who is just her sis in law.

When things have settled a bit I'm going to address what went off as there are some serious falls in their policies and the hospital is supposed to be UNICEF accredited for bf. Like heck!

She's started to clock watch as the hospital said she should be ffed every 3 hours and as she had been fed at 7 when she woke up at 9.30 Al said that it hadn't been 3 hours so she can't be hungry yet. Explained the importance of feeding on demand whether breast or formula so hopefully she won't end up with a screaming baby being forced to wait 3 hours.

Thank you so much for your help ladies, I so wish it had turned out differently but as you know we all walk a fine balance between promoting bf and being interfering especially with relatives.
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Post by Kasia80 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:59 pm

When things have settled a bit I'm going to address what went off as there are some serious falls in their policies and the hospital is supposed to be UNICEF accredited for bf. Like heck!
Shocked


how sad. You've done your best, if she didn't had it in her heart really it wouldn't never work out anyway.

Please make sure she takes care of herself, as she is still producing and nowdays doc won't give her milk stopping pill- there is too much health risks attached to them. She'll need express and use other comfort measures
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Post by kay on Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:04 pm

give her a :aww: from us!

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Post by gem1981 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:22 am

:iconsad: How frustrating she didnt get proper help.

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Post by Helen on Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:16 pm

aww thats awful - how can doctors behave like this it makes me so mad! Mad

Your a great sil though and have definately done your best hun :aww:
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Post by helenasusan on Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:59 pm

Sorry ladies, I've been on holiday for a week so haven't been able to update you.

Wait for it



Al is :boob: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a good long talk with her the morning of my going on holiday and discussed all her worries and we managed to sort them out. She is still having supply problems so Emme is ff top up and has one 4oz bottle while Al goes to the hospital to see my brother.

I''m so pleased for her as she so wanted to do it, as with my nephew she was never given the option to bf as he was in SCBU for 6 weeks as he had a fractured left femur so the Dr's gave her drugs to stop her milk production.

Thank you for all your help and best wishes girls. They were really appreciated! bliss
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Post by kay on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:03 pm

cheers Well done for supporting and encouraging her!

Oooh, and hope you had a nice holiday! Very Happy

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Post by helenasusan on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:10 pm

It was brilliant thanks Kay. We only went to Sutton on Sea for a week but they have a brilliant paddling pool that Jack loved. He would have stayed in there all day if I had let him.

It's nice to be home though.
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Post by clairelana on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:51 am

Aww yey, thats great that you sil is now bfing.
I'd like to tell you what happened to me if you don't mind. a short version....lol
My lo wasn't gaining enough weight in the early days. I was referred to the pead who told me i was to give a top up of formula once a day. I was so gutted as i wanted to ebf, i cried and cried. I spoke to so many people about it and got lots of support. I went to my local bfing group who supported me fully in my wanting to ebf. They told me not to give formula and to top up with ebm. I had started to express when i started to top up as i didn't want to harm my supply by giving formula. I started to swap some of the ff for ebm. My lo still has one bottle a day but of ebm which daddy gives to her. I also had supply issues at first, i started to take fenugreek and eat plenty of oats. I was told that oats make your milk more substantial. I'm not sure by who or why they do, i spoke to so many people. I do feel the oats worked though. As my lo is now gaining well from just my milk. Its been a hard journey but with determination i now feel were sailing through feeding. I hope that helps.
I will post my story in full detail when i get chance in the bfing story section.

Claire
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Post by Helen on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:47 pm

helenasusan wrote: Wait for it


Al is :boob: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


cheers That is brilliant! You are a brilliant sil giving her all that support so mummy and baby can :boob: :aww:

clairelana wrote: My lo wasn't gaining enough weight in the early days. I was referred to the pead who told me i was to give a top up of formula once a day. I was so gutted as i wanted to ebf, i cried and cried. I spoke to so many people about it and got lots of support. I went to my local bfing group who supported me fully in my wanting to ebf.


aww claire :aww: :aww: :aww: :aww: :aww: i'm so glad you got the support you needed. I'm sure some health professionals see it as the "easy option" for themselves to just tell women to top up with formula instead of giving them the help and support they need! Mad

I no i have been told twice now about topping up with formula to get bethany to sleep through! And both times i have told them no and have gone on and on to them about the reasons why i dont wish to use formula which made the hv's look dim by even suggesting it Laughing


Last edited by Helen on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kay on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:55 pm

I was told that oats make your milk more substantial. I'm not sure by who or why they do, i spoke to so many people. I do feel the oats worked though.

Absolutely!

If I feel i am having a bit of a dip, or Corey seems more hungry than usual, I eat porridge for breakfast and have a ouple of flapjacks through the day - works wonders!

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Post by helenasusan on Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:31 pm

kay wrote:
I was told that oats make your milk more substantial. I'm not sure by who or why they do, i spoke to so many people. I do feel the oats worked though.

Absolutely!

If I feel i am having a bit of a dip, or Corey seems more hungry than usual, I eat porridge for breakfast and have a ouple of flapjacks through the day - works wonders!

I think that's why I developed my flapjack addiction lol. It certainly helped my milk supply.

Claire thank you so much for your message. I've printed it out to show Al that it is possible for her to feed.

Again thank you so much ladies for your kind words, support and advice. They are very appreciated.
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Post by salocius on Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:44 pm

I was told oats were good too but can't remember by whom! think i still have preggersbrain!

My friend gave me a recipie called Nutty slack basically it has oats and cocunut in them. Problem is i'll make a batch up but they last erm 5 mins.

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